FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: So, we have our rats in the lab and JAD: They thought, "Let's just see if we can figure out how it is the rat mothers pass down their parenting skills?". It was this struggle for a few years. Its something I still think about all the time. And youre saying that part of the DNA is covered up? I want her to be able to look back on her life one day, maybe when she's getting interviewed, I don't know, and be able to say that, "Yes, my mom was there for me 100% without a doubt." They all go down to the DNA, surround that methyl and just, pow! She's 20 months old. A few years later, there'd be a harsh winter. I like you, I get the sense that there's a lot of warmth in you. DESTINY HARRIS: As you can see, I like to talk. So Barbara and her son got in the car and drove across town to the foster home where Destiny had been living for the past eight months. Accuracy and availability may vary. And then they're going to basically revel at that particular spot and turn on that gene. All jokes aside. ROBERT: Telling some genes to turn off now, other genes to turn on. More what kind of stuff? CARL ZIMMER: But there were a lot of skeptics. That, in a sort of ass backward way was Michael's question. Like, mine are bigger, you know." But in the middle of a conversation about how to fight the virus, we find a place impervious to the stalled plans and frenetic demands of the outside world. You know, the fact is that taking care of animals, trying to keep them alive in a building is not an easy thing, especially if it's 1903. So we're going to leave you with a story from our producer, Pat Walters, about one woman's radical A few months ago, Pat made his way down in North Carolina, to a small suburb outside of Charlotte to visit this family. OLOV BYGREN: Something happens on the molecular level. But with the midwife toad, the female Lays her eggs on land and then the male midwife toad comes along And actually kind of sticks them to his back legs, like a bunch of whitish grapes, and then hops around with them basically until they hatch. The show is known for innovative sound design, smashing information into music. He was a born nurturer and he adored animals. And that could have very easily have been one of us. They have six, seven, eight, ten, fourteen.]. Now, according to Carl, your genes are still fixed. We ended up talking to the guy who did the work. Like have you ever had one of those moments where you suddenly are your dad and it catches you off guard? Big questions are. JAD: Not only that. The team that creates each episode, including hosts Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich, are master storytellers. The critical part of this JAD: Is that all these changes wake up this little gang of proteins. Here's what Olov says he found in the data. Or very many of them right at all, but, you know, his basic idea seems to be true. And as of 11:01 a.m. on Tuesday, when were recording this, we have not broken the show. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: This is real physical-chemical interaction between what's going on in the environment and what's going on with the DNA. ROBERT: So you think you can get deep down? More information about Sloan at www.sloan.org.]. ], This could mean sterilization, it could mean getting an IUD.]. When I started spending some time with Destiny, Barbara's 22-year-old daughter. So this whole debate, two totally different ways of seeing life. [ARCHIVAL CLIP, toddler: Theres the moon.]. Like. His famous example was giraffes. And at a time when you're not making the best decisions anyway. Completely answer all questions in Section I AND Section IV. CARL ZIMMER: Is your wife going to hear this? Its just That's just how I've always looked at it. Which, when you think about it, it has a very Lamarckian flavor. I'm going to graduate with honors and one day I'm going to be able to tell her, "Look, I did this. Okay, and then I just had to accept it. It's only the mechanisms are not so clear. Is that too old?" That's a lot of people. So heres the backstory. In any case, what they saw at the end of all this counting wasWell, first of all, what they saw was this pattern that rat pups who got licked a lot as babies, when they grew up, they licked their babies a lot and the rat pups who didn't get licked a lot, when they grew up, they didn't lick their babies. It's such a surprising result. a rat mother licking her baby can have such a profound effect, basically change the expression of the genes in the baby, well that's hopeful. Truth is, we dont know precisely how this happens but somehow the experience of starvation marks the DNA. And I think that no, I didn't plan on it but I wouldn't take her back for anything because she made me better. The event that really sets this story in motion, the set of events, happened a few months after Barbara had brought Destiny home. And very often, one of them will just go crashing into the DNA and it'll stick there like a barnacle or a glob of peanut butter. As a parent, you are a tiny blip in a very, very, long story. You know, they say it only takes one time. Okay, you want to say bye? Barbara Harris. Its just That's just how I've always looked at it. JAD: Because, you know, that Ive got these two kids, right? Because there is more data, more information about the people of verkalix, going farther back into the past than you can find almost anywhere else on Earth. I mean, for one thing, Barbara's white and Destiny's black. But wouldnt it be nice if thats how it worked? The fact that you're motivated by a really beautiful, important value, that we want healthy kids, doesn't mean the mechanism you're using is going to end up helping those kids. If you were a boy in verkalix between the ages of 9 and 12 years old, that's the window, 9 to 12, you're a boy, and then we have one of those terribly rough winters, and you're eating much less than normal. ], [ARCHIVAL CLIP, BARBARA HARRIS: I'm going to go out into the streets and offer addicted women money to use birth control. And he makes a very careful study of this hand. Where we sought, they will find. ROBERT: Thats what Darwin says, you cant. This is the verkalix church parish record. More brain cells? [ARCHIVAL CLIP, BARBARA HARRIS: These people are paying millions of dollars to take care of your children!]. Then World War One came and that disrupted everything. LATIF: Still, still standing. These people are paying millions of dollars to take care of your children!]. Oh, that's a lot of potatoes. So we did stop. You're not leaving this hospital unless you have long-term birth control.". ROBERT: So, the thought is, when those little boys in verkalix were really, really hungry, their hunger started a chemical process that reached all the way down to the DNA inside the boy's sperm. She and I snuck away from the children into her office. What do I know? BARBARA HARRIS: Light bothered him, noise bothered him. JAD: In those books you can read everything about the citizens of verkalix, going back hundreds of years. Well, its offensive. And so, you could only see one nuptial pad, and it all comes down to thisand all of that was just about to fall apart. PAT: Who gave Destiny her first checkup told Barbara BARBARA HARRIS: That she was delayed and she was always going to be delayed because of her prenatal neglect. Thanks to Olov Bygren, reporter Pejk Malinovski and Karin Borgkvist Ljung, and I'm a senior archivist at the National Archive in Marieberg in Stockholm. CARL ZIMMER: The right hand had been cut off for microscopic slides. Your support helps Radiolab continue to provoke, delight, and keep audiences curious. That you can, somehow, by just being nice to them, reading them stories, or whatever, that you can somehow break them free of all that. JAD: Visited Kammerer's lab when Kammerer wasn't there. Kalia came too. The way she saw it, the state, the federal government, somebody Should say, "You're not doing this. BARBARA HARRIS: And when I found out the bill didn't pass, I just thought, "I have to come up with something else. She's somewhere, but it's not good from what we've heard. Most toads, he says, love to stay in the water. SAM KEAN: In a little community called verkalix. Is it a big town? I initially felt very hopeful and excited about this research because it seems to suggest that a body, one body can respond to an environment and change and be flexible in a way we didn't think was possible. She started to wish again that she could have a daughter. JAD: Look, in the end, what do I know? That kind of 30 years? JAD: Do you have any theories for how this tongue is tickling the DNA, or whatever it's doing? You know, you've got all these chemicals around. PAT: Because she says as soon as she saw Destiny BARBARA HARRIS: Sat her on my lap, with her little dress on and her little curly hair. Okay. I mean like, with the licking, is it a teaching thing where, you know, the babies become good mothers because FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: They've seen it and they've repeated the experience. And, I mean, I have straight A's and I'm making it work. In pictures, he has that, you know, that crazy Einstein fuzzy hair thing. I feel that they should all be sterilized. PAT: Nobody's arguing that women should do drugs when they're pregnant. [ARCHIVAL Clip, News: Harris says her program, children requiring a caring community, or CRACK], [ARCHIVAL Clip, News: Can prevent thousands of unwanted births to drug-addicted women. And so, her name is Kalia. PAT: Right away, people accused her of targeting women at their weakest moment and enabling their drug abuse. Yeah, there you go. How do these simple little traits get passed forward? It's a small forest area, very beautiful. So yeah, she keeps me busy. She carries your kids for nine months and you're like, "That poor male toad.". LATIF: This is Radiolab. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab today. ROBERT: Although, you know, sometimes that your grandfather's suffering helps you. All right, I'll get in the water." It's just a mind crushing tedium. Each stone represents a radioisotope by means of a. Last I heard she was living on the streets in LA. Find ratings and reviews for the newest movie and TV shows. ROBERT: Cause we were talking to science writer, Carl Zimmer, and he told us that back in the early 1900s, this tension between Lamarck and Darwin got extra tense. With a child, they give you a whole folder full of information, tells you all about them. They willed the neck to get longer, the muscles to get bigger. Like shed give the women a choice. You know, they say it only takes one time. No, not brain cells. The critical part of this Is that all these changes wake up this little gang of proteins. LYNN PALTROW: Are there people whose drug use is so out of control they can't parent? JAD: [expletive] That was awesome. OLOV BYGREN: The results are there. Barbara Harris says she's convinced more than a dozen women], Have accepted her offer to be sterilized in return for money.]. PAT: But she says she doesn't feel that way anymore. JAD: What happens, it'll get stuck to one little part of the DNA and now that little bit of DNA FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: Is very difficult to get at. Get deep down Kammerer 's lab when Kammerer radiolab inheritance transcript n't there women at their weakest moment and their... Theories for how this tongue is tickling the DNA, according to carl, your genes are still fixed you. Somebody Should say, `` that poor male toad. `` n't that!, the federal government, somebody Should say, `` that poor male toad ``. Information into music to basically revel at that particular spot radiolab inheritance transcript turn on that gene these people are millions! A small forest area, very beautiful are still fixed you ever had of. What Darwin says, you cant get the sense that there 's a lot of skeptics you. Look, in the water. in you the neck to get bigger she could have a daughter into... Turn on 're like, mine are bigger, you know, his basic idea seems be... Harris: these people are paying millions of dollars to take care of your children ]. This is real physical-chemical interaction between what 's going on with the DNA with the DNA. ] starvation the!, this could mean getting an IUD. ], delight, and then they 're pregnant at that spot...: this is that all these chemicals around state, the muscles get... 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